Youth

[steuard]

Yesterday, Kim and I went to her grandfather's 90th birthday party, which was in fact something of a family reunion filled (as usual) with people squinting at each other thinking, "Do I know her?" Not long after getting there, I was chatting with a sixteen year old cousin when we were interrupted by a middle aged relative. She said a few words to him, and then looked at me and asked, "So, is this one of your friends?"

I've gotten surprisingly much of that recently. A week or two ago, I was carded when buying wine at the grocery store. And when I saw Professor Su at a Harvey Mudd event not long ago he exclaimed that I looked younger than I had when I was in his class. I'm torn as to what to think of it. On the one hand, it's pleasant to know that I haven't lost that youthful glow. But on the other, there's always a part of me that thinks, "Hey now! I've got a doctorate in string theory and I'm a professor of physics. Don't I get a little respect?" I guess I'm a bit more attached to that whole "social status" thing than I like to admit. (I was also bit too pleased when I saw the New York Times survey listing the highest status occupations: 1. Doctor, 2. Lawyer, 3. Physicist/Astronomer. I seem to be a little vain after all.)

One of the most interesting aspects of the experience yesterday, though, is the way in which that older relative broke into our conversation. She broke in right in the middle of a sentence, as if her desire to say hello was obviously more important than anything two sixteen-year-olds might be talking about. I don't recall being particularly aware of that behavior when I was younger, but I'm willing to believe that it's common. And that bugs me. I've always felt that as much as possible, kids should be treated just like any other person. As it was, I felt distinctly like I was being treated as an inferior. (The interrupting relative seemed a bit contrite when I introduced myself, but for me that just underscored how little she had respected our conversation before she knew I was an adult.)

On the other hand, there are situations where a clear difference in age and experience is pretty important. My youthful look leaves me uncertain that my students will automatically take me seriously, for example. I'm still working on how to strike the right balance there.

Comments

[kirin]

Heh, even before I got to your third paragraph I was thinking "I guess you just need to hang out around folks with more respect for young people".

Of course, if you really *want* to look older I think the one quick method (short of taking large doses of Meth or something equally horrible) is to grow a beard.

Though in addition to my beard I also have the bunch of grey hair pointing towards older... which ironically I've had to some extent since high school.

[steuard.livejournal.com]

I do have some pictures of myself with a beard from last summer: I decided not to shave between my surgery and when I started my job in the fall. I'll have to post one or two of them at some point. (I have some on my computer that were taken with my digital camera about halfway through the summer, but the latest pictures still need to be scanned in.) I think I look pretty weird, but it's not as bad as I thought it might end up being.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

The students thing: I have the same problem. Really, it all works just fine. Most of authority is acting like you have it.

It was really funny, my first year of teaching, before the parents recognized me. They'd see me, and they couldn't think "student" because it's a boys' school so they were thinking "older sister maybe?", and then they'd see that I was acting as if I belonged and knew what was going on, and then they'd just have no idea how to react to me at all. Hilarious.

My coworkers, however, have consistently overestimated my age, even as I still get mistaken physically for a teenager on occasion. (Including once while pregnant. That was an impressive disapproving sidelong glance. :)

[beth_leonard]

Dress and poise has a lot to do with it with respect to students and professors. Lynn wore braces for a few years while a computer teacher at a K-8 private school. She was occasionally mistaken for an 8th grader. Eventually she got a reputation for being "the smart teacher" at her school. It takes interaction beyond the first impression.

Rude relatives, not much one can do about that. If you're younger than they are, you'll always be the baby.

--Beth

[patrissimo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I get that sort of thing all the time, even though I don't shave. Two masters degrees and a job at the top company in my field don't seem to have made much difference. For me it's not really a respect thing in the same way as you describe, but I'm not sure how to describe why it bothers me. I think I'm more looking for respect for stuff like being a parent than for my job & education.

[steuard.livejournal.com]

Now that you mention it, I suspect that once I'm a parent, that will be added to this list of "Shouldn't I be treated as an equal by now?" items. Maybe it's less a matter of wanting respect for my career and more just that my job and education are two of the most tangible things I can point to and say, "No, really, I deserve to be treated as a grownup!" I'm starting to think that in the back of my mind, I've had some little (ridiculous) assumption that there really was some line that I could cross after which I wouldn't have to "prove" somehow that I was an adult. That assumption is now being proven wrong: if I haven't crossed that line already (and if you haven't crossed it as a dad), then I'm forced to recognize that it doesn't exist. I think I've always accepted that intellectually, but it seems that I've got a little visceral emotional catching up to do.

It may also be that I only really started to feel that I had "come into my own" as a peer of the professors rather than the students a bit over a year ago. It was a fantastic feeling to realize at a physics talk a month or so before my own PhD defense that I had lost my reservations about interactions with the faculty. I hadn't really realized that I'd had those reservations to begin with, and then I found myself quashing an off-topic debate between a couple of senior faculty so the speaker could get on with his talk (which I doubt I'd have dared to do even a year earlier). Maybe after that I just assumed that an internal transformation so significant to me ought by rights to be obvious to everyone else as well. (And that event was, of course, closely tied to my job and education, perhaps explaining why those jumped to mind recently.)

And as I said before, I'm still disappointed that this nebulous idea of "adulthood" affects the respect granted to other people in general.

[patrissimo.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's less a matter of wanting respect for my career and more just that my job and education are two of the most tangible things I can point to and say, "No, really, I deserve to be treated as a grownup!"

That makes sense.

I'm still disappointed that this nebulous idea of "adulthood" affects the respect granted to other people in general.

Fortunately there are a few of us who believe in treating people as people from as early an age as possible:

http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/

but it's sad that so many don't.

It's great that you are feeling more confident, that should at least ameliorate the effects of other people not taking you seriously.

[kirin]

On the other side of the coin, one can also often find some mental relief by hanging out with other adults who don't take themselves terribly seriously. Though I understand such situations might be difficult to come by in certain academic and business institutions.

I have this too

[(Anonymous)]

Well, Stu, if it makes you feel better, just last week I was mistaken for a freshman, despite my sporting a beard. Part of it is undoubtedly my t-shirt and shorts motif, but still. Part of the reason I sport a beard is I feel I'll look even younger if I shave. I've never really had any difficulty maintain respect/authority in class. Maybe because I look like a terrorist. :) Actually, I just act like I'm in charge, and I think the kids respond to that. Or maybe its just Southern culture. I guess I'll find out in a month.

The really funny thing is that as a teenager, people always thought I was older than I was. When I was 15, store clerks started offering me credit cards. In my summer jobs, I'd regularly be invited to go to with the guys to bars after work. And during the summer I spent at Chambana, everyone just assumed I was a grad student. I wonder why the change...

And ukelele, dear, you _are_ a child who hasn't even reached her 4th decade, yet, so nyah! :)

--Itai