But why an army of *nerd* clones?

[steuard]

I just got a letter from Duke University. Apparently, they want my DNA.

Years ago, Duke arranged for me (and many other 7th graders) to take the SAT. I did pretty well (very well, for a 7th grader). Now, some researchers there(?) are doing a study looking for "genetic markers of intellectual functioning" and they tell me that "There is probably no group of individuals in this country who possess higher measured cognitive abilities than the Duke TIP group to which you belong." (That's just one example of the flattery they've used.)

I'm not sure whether to participate. Being used as a genetic exemplar of brilliance sounds great and all, but I find the premise of the study to be pretty cheesy. They apparently believe that my ability to take standardized tests way back in 7th grade is supposed to correlate significantly with intelligence. That was probably a factor, but especially at that early age I'd think that my parents' habit of reading to me (and encouraging me to read grown-up books) contributed at least as much, to say nothing of the Lincoln public school system's fantastic gifted program (I had already had personal math mentors for several years at that point). It's hard for me to believe that "good 7th grade SAT score" will correlate clearly with anything but "white upper-middle class background".

So, what do you think: should I give them my genes or not?

[Edit: Just to be clear (since patrissimo seems to have missed my point a bit), I recognize that intelligence is a part of why I did well on the test. The genetic markers they identify may well correspond roughly to "smart white upper-middle class" kids. But I have serious doubts about their ability to disentangle those factors.]

Comments

[beth_leonard]

Interesting. I also took the SAT in 7th grade, but I've never heardof Duke's TIP. My parents still live at the same address though.

As for Stu's question: I am all in favor of science, exploring and learning more. It's part of why I donated my kids' cord blood at birth. Hopefully they are *also* asking you for the background information, to help tease out the answers as to which abilities to take standardized tests come from genetics and which from environment, in order to better help us get the courage to change the things we can, along with (hopefully) the wisdom to know the difference.

Watching Jon tutor his students, it is extremely clear that a well-educated white middle class background is not sufficient to produce high SAT scores. Many of his students come from well-educated and involved families (who can afford to pay $80/hr for tutoring) but the kids just aren't as bright as the parents wished they were. Jon works extremely hard to give these kids the best possible environment for learning and understanding mathematics, but some of them still just don't "get it" even though they themselves want to and try hard to figure out algebra 2.

I for one would like to understand more about why this is, because understanding why based on facts, not on feelings of how we wish life worked, will help us craft plans that address what to do about it more efficiently than if we don't understand why.

--Beth

[steuard.livejournal.com]

They do say that they'll link demographic information with each genetic sample, so that's something. But I'd still suspect that their initial sample will be disproportionately dominated by rich white kids, because you need both intelligence AND an unusually supportive background to do well on the SAT five years before it's intended to be taken (for all the reasons I've outlined above). I don't know how they plan to separate those factors; I'm not sure I believe that they even could. Hence my hesitation to participate: I wouldn't want to contribute to a study that was biased to conclude that intelligence turns out to be caused by genes found mostly in rich white people. If they've got plans to deal with that, I'd feel a lot better about it. Maybe I'll write to the researchers and find out.

So, when you took the SAT in 7th grade, was it just on a whim or was there some outside program that organized it? I vaguely recall that there was some agreement where Duke and two other schools split up the country for these 7th grade SAT things, and I don't know who the other two schools were or where their (rather random) territories ran.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

(I daresay the sample dominance will be more that you need to come from the aforesaid background to even know that taking it in 7th grade is an option, but yes.)

Personally as far as participation goes I would be more concerned about privacy issues relating to my DNA. (Well, that and the CTY admins have pissed me off so I don't want to help them. But I hope TIP does not have that issue.)

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

Oh, and CTY is run by Johns Hopkins and draws primarily from the Northeast and from CA. I believe that it (or rather its precursors, OTID and SMPY) was the first program to use the SAT as a 7th grade screening tool, and it ended up with the Northeast because it radiated from Baltimore. I don't know who the other school would be that you would be thinking, but my first guess would be Stanford.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

TIP and CTY both have regions of the country where they're better known (and, for all I know, there are other regions of the country with which I am unfamiliar which use 7th-grade-SAT for other purposes -- it's a convenient way to do screening for that sort of program).

[beth_leonard]

I took it in order to get into summer school at Berkeley. I wanted to take Latin *really*badly* and my parents wanted me to take Algebra. I ended up with Algebra, and it was likely a very good decision, but I still wish I could have managed to squeeze the Latin in there somewhere.

The night before taking the SAT my mom and I sat down and reviewed the sample problems and answers. I learned for the first time what a square-root sign was, and what it meant to have a little number up in the air next to a big number. The night before the test. I did well enough figuring out answers on the test that it does seem to have been (for me) more of a test of intelligence than a test of what I had been taught in the past at that point.

For 7th graders, who have not been formally taught many of the things tested on the exam, it does seem to function much as an IQ test. While a high-school junior may have had to memorize in english class that "ambiguous" means "unclear", a younger student may have been able to figure it out from context through movies or reading, a sign of higher intelligence. Yes, for some extremely well-backgrounded kids, doing well on the test may come more from their background than their raw intelligence, it still tests their intelligence -- to cite Jon's students again, they have an amazing background, but they still would not have scored as well as a high-IQ poor kid who figures out what the little 2 hanging in the air means by asking a high school kid during the break.

It isn't a perfect substitute for an IQ test, but for 7th graders, it's the cheapest available alternative. We use this inexpensive proxy to do the initial science to figure out what we really need to test, and maybe some year later we can test with that.
...
Responding to Stu's question/comment about demographics in your comment so you both get to see it, my guess is that their population is homogenous enough that they want to answer the question, "among people with a similar background who were put forward as gifted and took this test for whom we have data, are there any genetic markers that allow us to tell the difference between a top 10% individual, a top 1% individual, and a top 0.001% individual?" I would not be surprised if they ask people who give a sample to take an IQ test now to see how it correlates with genes and 7th grade scores.

The people who took the test are already fairly homogeneous, but I would bet money that Stu's and Jon's scores were higher than mine and I also came from a decent background. I'm also willing to bet money that my brother's would have been significantly worse, even though we grew up in the same household. In fact, he didn't even take the test because he wasn't interested.

...

And recalling all these memories of that test reminds me of the night before and that morning -- I was actually significantly more worried about what the High School students would do to me (would they beat me up?) than how I would do on the test. I had nightmares about it.

--Beth