What's up with Halloween here?

[steuard]

I'm not a libertarian. But there's still something oddly creepy when your local government gets into the business of regulating trick-or-treating in what seem like crazy ways. This year in Alma, the city's approved Trick-or-Treat hours are 5:30-7:30 p.m. on October 30.

First of all, why in the world is this not on Halloween? I mean, yes, I can imagine that some days would be more convenient than others in principle, but we don't reschedule Christmas and New Years when the timing's bad. (Or at least, I hope we don't! I was out of town for the winter holidays last year.) I remember one year growing up when Lincoln, NE rescheduled trick-or-treating for a different night, but that was because there was a blizzard just before Halloween.

And second, what's up with those hours? The scheduled time runs from one hour before sunset to right around twilight (at 7:30 it will still be light enough to see the general shapes of things even without streetlights). When I was a kid, a significant aspect of Halloween was the spooky atmosphere. I have fond memories of houses with cool jack-o'-lanterns and some fairly intricate scary scenes in their yards, and as I got older I had fun jumping out of the shadows by our porch in costume to scare trick-or-treaters. Absolutely none of that works if the sun hasn't even set when the kids show up! Last year, by the time it was dark enough to see the candles in our pumpkins (7pm or so), practically nobody was still out in the neighborhood. (It's pretty clear from the timing that this is some "Think of the children!" safety measure, but I'm curious to know how much harm it actually prevents. Is it a big enough benefit to make it worth gutting the holiday this way?)

I had always hoped that when I finally owned my own house, I could eventually do cool stuff for Halloween. Sadly, the way things work here I don't think there would be much point.

(I really have to wonder why that city trick-or-treating message bothers to suggest reflective costumes: won't sunlight on all that reflective gear blind passing motorists? Flashlights would have been useless for most of our trick-or-treaters last year, too.)

Comments

[beth_leonard]

One wonders if there was some grizzly death on Halloween some number of years ago or something?

That is just...not what I'm used to.

--Beth

[chalgaryn.livejournal.com]

I should note that all the surrounding cities do the same thing. The paper runs a list of the 1-2 hour block of trick-or-treating times for every city in the area, and they are all at the same time (+/- 30 min). I'm not sure if everyone will do it on the 30th this year though since I've only see our city's announcement so far.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

It is one of those strange things. Some people are from areas that have designated hours, and when they move to a place that doesn't they ask when the hours are, and everyone says "WTF are you talking about, you weirdo?" Some people are from places where there are not designated hours, and when they move to someplace where there is, they react like you do. But I think both strategies are perfectly normal (in the sense of being common). (I am from a regulating area and now live in a non-regulating. I could not tell you why our town regulated the hours. But it always seemed to me like a convenience for the people handing out candy -- "this is when the trick-or-treaters will be at your house". And the hours have to start pretty early for the sake of the preschoolers.)

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

nonnihil points out this is very much the same kind of cultural clash people experience when they move (in either direction) between places that sell alcohol in grocery stores, and those that don't. They are both cultural norms that are generally unquestioned, hence dislocating when you move somewhere with different norms. But they are both perfectly reasonable. (Except, of course, that these uptight Puritanical barbarians who don't sell alcohol in grocery stores, as if it is some sort of weird totemic object, are completely messed up. ;)

[silentmonster.livejournal.com]

That sounds completely weird to me. Not so much the hours, but the date.

[steuard.livejournal.com]

I actually don't mind the idea of designated hours, though it's not familiar to me: it does seem like a real convenience for me as a homeowner, and it also gives drivers a clear idea of when they need to be especially careful.

My objection is almost entirely to scheduling trick-or-treating entirely before full dark (with half of the time being bright daylight). Was that the case where you grew up? I guess I don't know pre-school schedules that well: would it really be so bad to take them into the neighborhood right after sunset (at 6:30 or so)? Even 6:30-8:30 would give almost an hour of post-twilight time for the older kids to enjoy cool yard displays and the like.

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

It's been a while since I trick-or-treated ;), but I seem to recall hours that spanned sunset. And yes, I know a 4-year-old who goes to bed at 6:30 and turns into a total demon when sleep-deprived. The 1-year-old next door also goes to bed at 6:30. V, and a number of other kids around her age, go to bed more like 7:30ish -- but the hour before that is stories and bath and dinner, and the kids tend to be generally crazed that close to bedtime. I also know some young kids who go to sleep as late as 9 or so, but I think that's because they have nerdy night-owl friends who don't need to be at work at any particular time in the morning ;). So 6:30 trick-or-treating would pretty much be a disaster for a substantial fraction of the preschool set. Something like 5:30-8:30 would work for them while also having some serious post-dark time, but of course then the homeowners are pinned to their doors for three hours.

[kirin]

Well, I guess that's that then. Time for you to run for city council.

(Our neighborhood doesn't have set hours, but does block off through traffic, which strikes me as an eminently more effective safety precaution, albeit one that's only practical for neighborhoods with limited access. Unfortunately we're going to miss Halloween entirely this year due to going up to DC for the Stewart rally and then sticking around for some family obligation fulfilling, so no disquieting small children this time.)

[steuard.livejournal.com]

It's been a while since I trick-or-treated ;), but I seem to recall hours that spanned sunset.

That's actually fascinating to me! Where I grew up (without fixed hours, so families just went out whenever they chose to), I don't recall anyone ever showing up before sunset. I have no idea if that meant that parents were just choosing not to take their littlest ones out, or if Halloween night was always especially late and crazy for them, or what. (Though I figure the candy alone would guarantee that Halloween night would be kinda nuts.)

In fact, some level of darkness was built into our traditions themselves: you were only supposed to go to houses whose porch lights were on (the others presumably didn't have candy and didn't want to be bothered). That clearly doesn't work here; I wonder how people send that signal under this schedule.

[cabarney.myopenid.com (from livejournal.com)]

Ha. I completely agree with your misgivings about the day and time of 'official' trick-or-treat hours - just let the kids be kids. But the thought that kept jumping in my head was the vision of not-so-future you yelling "Get off my lawn!". "I remember one year growing up...", "When I was a kid...". Was that walk to Rousseau up-hill both ways from your house? Kids these days....

[kuddliphish.livejournal.com]

I must say not having Halloween on Halloween seems like asking for trouble with half the town not getting the message.

[kuddliphish.livejournal.com]

Our town's solution to the preschool problem is to have a Halloween festival in the afternoon on the last business day before Halloween. Kids can trick-or-treat at the businesses downtown, and there is a little carnival type thing at the library.

It seems ludicrous to have the big kids stop trick-or-treating before dark just so preschoolers can get to bed on time. My guess is that the city doesn't want to *encourage* kids to be out after dark so that they don't get sued if a kid gets hit by a car. How well are the hours obeyed? Does everyone really stop at 7:30 on the dot?